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Showing posts with label matt walsh. Show all posts
Showing posts with label matt walsh. Show all posts

Saturday, June 28, 2014

Matt Walsh is Confused about Immigration

While I often find myself agreeing with Matt Walsh on a lot of issues, I have to say I disagree with him on his stance on immigration laws and border security. Walsh recently published his blog post Isn't it mean and hateful to deport illegal immigrants? Here are my thoughts.

Walsh starts by saying, "We have borders in this country. We have laws. We must enforce those laws and those borders."
But here, Walsh is committing two logical fallacies: an appeal to law fallacy and a begging the question fallacy. The appeal to law fallacy equates legislation with morality. If his logic is valid then I can say, "Of course it's wrong for little girls to sell lemonade in New York without a license. It's the law!" But of course, that's begging the question. The law is the very thing in question when arguing about immigration. Simply restating that it's the law isn't news to anyone nor is it even remotely convincing.

"If your first act as a would-be citizen is to defy our laws, you cannot be a citizen."
Here Walsh is confusing two issues. The issue of citizenship and being here legally versus illegally are two different things. And shouldn't breaking laws mean you go to jail, not be deported? If you're a citizen, you go to jail, right? Or did I miss something? I mean, if you're really that kind of law-breaker isn't jail a better place than being free in another country. If they have a habit of breaking laws, wouldn't they just break the law again and come back?

"Every nation in existence has borders and laws, and every nation, save ours, generally goes about enforcing both."
This is an appeal to popularity fallacy also known as tyranny of the majority. What everyone else does has nothing to do with what's right and what's wrong. What made America such a great and free nations is that it broke the conventional wisdom of how governments and laws work. Remember when you were a kid and you'd tell your parents or your teachers, "But everyone else is doing it!" and they'd respond, "If everyone else was jumping off a cliff would you do it too?" Sometimes, we don't grow out of it.

"But here in this country we have a unique situation. We are able, but unwilling. Indeed, we may be the first nation in the history of humanity that actually has to argue over the basic concept of having and maintaining a border."
This is an assumption which has no basis in fact. How exactly would one know if we are able to do it. How exactly do you secure the border? It's 1,989 miles long. What are you gonna do, put a soldier on every foot of the border and have one standing there 24/7? A fence? Like people can't make holes in it, or bring a ladder.

There's also the assumption that we need a border. But why? For security? We already have laws against violence and other criminal offenses. Why is that not enough? Who exactly is the border keeping out? More government isn't the answer.

"A country cannot exist without a border, and a border cannot exist without laws, and the laws cannot exist without enforcement. It’s very logical."
This is yet another logical fallacy: the fallacy of equivocation or a bait and switch fallacy. It is true that a country cannot exist without borders, but the second time he uses the word "borders" he loads the word with a much broader meaning that includes implications of a certain level of border security, a fence, etc.

Then he says a border cannot exist without laws. But why? What laws? And are our current laws matching the ideal of what those laws should be? Walsh claims this is all very simple, but he must forgive this simpleton because I need a lot more clarity on such a broad statement.

"The true conspiracy is among those who oppose immigration enforcement. That camp can be easily divided into two factions (with plenty of crossover): 1) Corporations. 2) Democrat politicians."
Well, I'm not a corporation and I'm definitely not a Democrat politician... Though it's more of a straw man to characterize them as not wanting to enforce the border. The actual position is wanting immigration reform.

"Personally, I do feel great compassion for these kids, but the law can’t be put to the side for them."
Actually there are already laws on the books that allow children to come here legally (see: Brit Hume on The O'Reilly Factor).

"Besides, maybe they’re better off elsewhere. We don’t exactly treat children with humanity and respect in this country."
 Umm... what? Yeah, let's just throw logic out the window. They wouldn't be coming here if they weren't better off. It's pretty simple. Is he really saying we treat children worse here than in the corrupt, poverty-stricken countries they fled from?

"Of course, overpopulation is a ridiculous lie, so the problem with illegal immigration isn’t one of a lack of space. It’s more a lack of jobs, a lack of money, a lack of resources."
This represents a terrible ignorance of how the economy works. The free market regulates those things, not the government. No politician or legislator is all-knowing enough to figure out how many jobs are needed and where. The fact that they are able to come and get work means the free market is finding ways around the laws that hinder it.

You can make the same argument about new people being born or about people moving from state to state or city to city. "You have to stay where you are because there might be a lack of jobs, money and resources somewhere else." "You can't have more than two kids because there might be a lack of jobs, money and resources for them."

"Not to mention, back in the old days, immigrants came here and helped tame the wild land."
Back in the old days there was no border security and insane immigration laws. This they have this:
back in the old days?

And immigrants do help our country immensely. Both legal and illegal.

"Illegal immigrants of modern times, on the other hand, are often coaxed over with Spanish language food stamp advertisements and visions of free education and free health care."
This is an argument against food stamps and welfare, not against a free labor market. It has nothing to do with immigration.

 "Now, tell me that the bureaucracy is out of control and everything is more complicated and less efficient because of it, and I’ll agree. Tell me that we need to cut down the government and force it to handle its essential functions with speed and competency, and I’ll agree. Tell me that this should happen with our immigration process, and I’ll agree but insist that we start the streamlining process elsewhere."
I agree with him on this, but then why isn't he emphasizing those things which would be the solution? Why not focus on fixing the problem instead of whining about  "open borders" which very few people are arguing for anyway, and then justifying his argument against open borders with arguments that sound more like they're against the very things he just said he said he's for?

This rhetoric only seeks to make Republicans less likely to support much-needed immigration reform. There should be free trade in labor as well as goods and services. By making legal immigration so difficult, we've created a larger "black market" of people coming here by more degrading means. More laws and aggressive enforcement of bad laws are not the answer.

Tuesday, February 4, 2014

Progressive Intolerance

You may have heard about the so-called right-wing racism/xenophobia against a Coca-Cola ad during the Super Bowl. I hadn't heard of it until one of my progressive friends posted about it. When she did, I noticed Matt Walsh wrote an interesting blog post about so I posted the link to the blog in her comments... and then proceeded to watch her explode with anger that I would dare post a link from Matt Walsh on her Facebook page. I'm posting some the conversation below just so you can see how incredibly stupid it is.

Darcie: ‪#‎AmericaIsBeautiful‬ because of our diversity. I can't believe the outrage over this, a representation of what makes us great.

  • ...

  • J.B.: I never actually heard anyone talk about this until this morning, when one of my more conservative friends posted a status defending the commercial.

  • Darcie:  Allen West called it "the road to perdition." Apparently we as a country are literally headed to hell because people speak languages other than English!

  • Brian: Allen West does not necessarily represent the views of the Vast Rightwing Conspiracy. He would make a great live-action Bart Simpson, though.

  • Darcie: This article earlier today had a very thoughtful and logical first comment in defense of the ad; it has since been deleted. http://www.breitbart.com/.../Why-Coca-Cola-America-The...
  • Kaitlin: I was following Twitter last night, and there was instantaneous and widespread outrage over this commercial. I wouldn't exactly call that a small group of PR people making this up.

    But anyway. I am dumbfounded at how stupid people are to be made over this commercial. HOW DARE AMERICANS BE NON-WHITE AND SPEAK A DIFFERENT LANGUAGE.

  • Me: Haven't even heard of this until now.

    themattwalshblog.com
      I don't know. I just don't know. I think I will recover. I hope I will recover...See More

  • Darcie: I've make a rule of never reading anything Matt Walsh says. I'm done with that guy. And no, it was definitely not just liberals freaking out, there were actual, verifiable racist tweets about the ad.

  • Me: That's very open-minded...

  • Darcie: No, he's just too closed minded for me. I gave him plenty of chances.

  • Me: I never make rules of not reading anything from people I disagree with. I read people I disagree with all the time. It doesn't matter how many times. How is being closed-minded to him countering his supposed closed-mindedness? Wouldn't that be like double closed-mindedness? (Doing the very thing you accuse him of?)

  • Darcie: He's a self-important guy with a blog, and I'm constantly disappointed whenever I read his words. Therefore, I have chosen to waste no more time on him. It isn't closed mindedness, it's saving myself from wasting the brain cells.

  • Me:  Seems like a genetic fallacy. I'm not saying to make Matt Walsh important. No one is saying "read Matt Walsh because you need to think he's important." Matt Walsh isn't even saying that. It's usually the actual content of what he says. If you're
    "disa
    ppointed" then I'd like to know why. I can say randomly I'm disappointed by lots of people but that doesn't mean anything. It just seems like an excuse to not have one's views challenged. You could say the same about anyone who blogs or even posts on facebook. "They're just self-important." Even if that's true, that's irrelevant. If a self-important person says, "Don't commit murder" should he be ignored simply because he's "self-important"? If he says "2+2=4" is he wrong because he's self-important?

  • Darcie: David, there's no need to point to a fallacy to pick apart my reason for not liking the guy. I simply don't care what he says and don't find it relevant. I'll refrain from being any harsher, as I don't know him to truly judge the nature of his character. But, just as I refuse to read any more Hemingway since being assigned The Old Man and the Sea, I refuse to read The Matt Walsh Blog. Period.

  • Me:  Like, I said, you can justifying ignoring anyone like that. You express distaste for me pointing out a fallacy, but none for actually committing a fallacy. If you post something controversial, it seems like it's usually taken for granted that you're inviting people who might disagree to share thoughts.

  • Jave: omg David... stop hijacking this thread with a pointless argument.
  • Me: I didn't realize contrary views are now considered "hijacking".


  • Kaitlin: >.>

  • Jave: *facepalm*

  • Tim: Just as a hint, David, the topic of this thread is not whether Darcie likes or dislikes the way a particular blogger expresses his views, and whether her decision not to read a certain author is legitimate. To continue on about it is hijacking the thread from its intended topic.

    In cases like this, where you have interesting topics you wish to discuss with someone, you might consider posting on their Wall about that specific topic. That way other discussions aren't being unnecessarily derailed.

  • ...
    Me:  Except the link I posted *is* about the commercial. Darcie is the one who didn't wanna read it. I don't have an opinion on the controversy. I didn't see the commercial and I didn't hear anyone complain about it. I understand some people did. I'm not going to discount their experiences. I read Walsh's post after I saw Darcie's and thought he had some interesting things to say about the origin of the controversy, but no one wanted to talk about it. They just dismissed it because of the source. I expected someone to actually read it and respond to it, in hopes of helping to form my opinion on the matter, but instead I was met with hostility for merely posting a link to a certain blog.

  • Darcie: Dude, the only hostility was me saying no thank you and you getting mad that I dislike someone's writing. >_>

  • Darcie: What are YOUR actual feelings on the subject other than whatever some other blogger said? That's what I want to know. Should we be mad people are singing a song about America in a non-English language? Should we be mad people are still weird about there being non-white immigrants making up the citizens of the United States? That's what I want to know. What that other guy said is not relevant. Your thoughts are.

  • Me:  I'm not mad, I fully expected you to dislike his writing, I just wanted to see what you thought of the post, i.e. if he said something wrong I'd like to hear what it is, not "I don't read from that blog." Umm.. okay... Like, I said I posted trying to figure out what's going on, and since I didn't see the commercial originally or hear about the controversy I posted a link to someone else who did some research on it.

  • Me:  I didn't even say I agree with Walsh, I don't know much about it. I wanted to see what *you* thought of Walsh's response. I still haven't formed an opinion since this largely passed me. I'm trying to figure it all out.

    I'm a child of two immigrants, a
    nd most of my friends and cousins growing up were bi-racial as well. I have a very diverse group of friends and live in one of the most diverse cities in the nation. I thought the commercial was awesome.

  • Darcie: You want me to react to someone else's interpretation of the reactions of others? Is that what this is?

  • Darcie: Since I'm sure he's dismissed the whole ordeal, here's a page of actual tweets and responses that actually are critical of the ad. That's really all I need to know here. The hatred over the ad being not American enough DOES EXIST. http://www.buzzfeed.com/.../coca-colas-multi-lingual...
  • Me: He didn't dismiss it. He read all those tweets. He just has an interesting explanation for it. I'm not quite sure if I buy it, but I wanted to hear your thoughts.

    What he said is, "Most of the stories about the phantom “firestorm” cite comments from A
    ...See More

  • Jeremy: Matt Walsh makes some good points here, sure, but he also isn't adding anything of any value to the table - he's simply snatching up another opportunity to widen the divide between the 'liberals' and the 'conservatives'. He avoids admitting that xenophobia is a serious problem and jumps straight into defending his political party. His self-righteous, holier than thou attitude is the reason I have joined the ranks in blacklisting this guy. If he doesn't ever have anything constructive or valuable to say, why waste your time?

  • Darcie: Matt Walsh is also "just some person" so I choose to not find his dismissal of actual events in any way contrary to what I still feel about this whole thing. And yes, that was a dismissal. He's a guy that had a little radio show and then started blogging. Who cares? Because the best thing to do when you have no opinion but still want to get a blog post in that will get shared a bajillion times is to write something completely irrelevant to the fact that people in this day and age actually still say those things and it's getting old. Post about how the right wing really isn't that racist and the left is totally overreacting, because that will totally fix the problem of people being jerks to other people. Oh, and how many times did Allen West post about it? And how many times were his words read and repeated and liked and shared? But sure, it wasn't a big deal. There's no such thing as racism anymore, for reals.

  • Me:  So does anyone know exactly how many people posted the racist tweets? Did anyone here experience racist tweets themselves on twitter?

    You guys were criticizing me for arguing about Walsh, but I don't care about Walsh. I care about what he said. Stop h
    ijacking this thread with a pointless argument. You say Matt Walsh is just one person. Well Allan West is just one person. So doesn't that cancel out?

    If anyone should care about racism, it's me. I'm half Mexican and half Indian. Indians and Hispanics get the most racism in this country right now and few people address it, including progressives. It's not that I don't care, I just didn't see any right-wing racism anymore than I see tweets about people who hate nuns and puppies. If the right is really racist, how come you're upset about a Black man having so much influence on the right-wing?

  • Darcie: Kaitlin already stated she was on Twitter at the time and saw people react to the ad with stupidity.

    And David, no. You will not lash out at people here for reacting to your posts and tell them to stop hijacking, whether you mean that comment honestly or with a grain of sarcasm. It just won't fly here.

  • Me:  So why the double standard? You can do it, but I can't?

  • Darcie:Just stop.

  • J.B.: David just managed to brilliantly and systematically prove that you're willing to listen only to people with whom you agree. Well done, David. I tip my hat to you.